I had a terrific experience yesterday followed by a very different one and I want to share them both.
I took my kids to the pediatrician for their flu shots yesterday. My youngest, Phoebe, is medically fragile and the flu could well kill her so we are all careful about shots. The nurse took the girl’s history and said that since Phoebe has terrible asthma she needed the shot while Karen, who is medically healthy, could have the nasal spray. Karen thought for a minute and said she would take the shot too as it would be easier for Phoebe if she saw her sister get the shot and could see it was not a big deal. You have to know that Karen hates shots with a passion. It was such a brave, kind and generous act, I nearly cried.
Then last night, I went to Phoebe’s school open house. There was a little boy there with his mom and his behavior was atrocious. He was rude, disrespectful and intrusive. It was not because it was late and he was tired. He acts like this all of the time. His mom threatened, cajoled, bribed and reasoned with him. He laughed ate her. His mom looked embarrassed and said that it was so hard to keep him quiet as he was gifted and easily bored!!!
I am not a hitter or a yeller but I do think we may have done our kids a disservice when we made spanking a child such a crime. I had to wonder what would happen to this little guy in a crisis. What if his mom said to run (fire, flood, danger) and he argued? What if he demanded an explanation rather than knowing that when they say for me to do something, I need to do it. NOW! I also wonder about life in a world where he is not always going to get what he asks for. How long will he scream and whine before he understands that the world may not revolve around what he wants. I know I will hear a lot of negative feedback about this but I am going to stick my neck out here. What if mom had taken him to the bathroom and told him in a calm voice that if his behavior did not improve he would be taken outside and receive a spanking and then she followed up? I don’t know for sure. I am guessing that a swat on his fanny might have removed the humor from the situation for him.
I should add that I teach behavior management classes and I never recommend spanking. I have also raised many dozens of kids (I am a foster parent) without ever laying a hand on them in anger. However, I do think it is necessary for kids to know that there is a limit to what behavior you are going to tolerate. I am a big believer in the consequences of one’s actions being the best discipline. If you forget your homework and mom brings it to school twice a week you are teaching a lesson, the wrong one but a lesson non-the-less. If you don’t get your clothes in the hamper you don’t have clean socks. If you don’t eat the beans you don’t get the cookie. If you act up in public you will not be taken out. If you push me to the limit, you will get a swat on the bum. Clear and to the point.
We have created a child centric society in some ways and in others, a very child harming one. We give our kids lots of stuff but none of our time. We teach them to speak Chinese in preschool but not how to speak kindly to their siblings. We teach them to respect money but not to respect their parents. They are exposed to media that displays rude, arrogant behavior as cool and portrays parents as bumbling and easily manipulated. We sell to them and are dismayed when they buy into it.
We have to do a better job. Our kids need to meet the challenges of the future with discipline and grit. They can not afford to think the world will change to suit them.
The Just In Case Book Blog 
September 23, 2009 at 8:32 am
This was a problem I had with my first (ADHD/BiPolar) and my second child (OCD). I worked very hard for just that reason. We had an unfortunet incident that gave me the results that I wanted. While waiting by the side of the road for the bus, a car came careening out of control down the hill. My OCD darling was told to “move – NOW”, but she turned to argue. The neighbors dog (who was smarter than I thought) litterally pushed her out of the way, knocking her into a ditch. He gave his life saving hers. We had a VERY long talk about how her arguing had cost the dog his life. It was a harsh and cruel talk, but she never argued again like that. Sometimes, the old methods of teaching through hard lessons are the best.
September 23, 2009 at 8:37 am
As a mother of 6, four who are grown, and productive citizens. I agree with you whole heartedly. My older kids thank us for raising them the way we did. They learned limits, self control, kindness to others, and that the world does not revolve around them. My oldest, a daughter thanked me when she was away at college because she realized that since we did not give into keeping up with the jones’, she was not tempted into getting in trouble with credit cards, like many of her friends did. We have good productive children, one a pastor, one an Army Ranger, one joining the army, and one a pharmacy tech. If you leave character training out of parenting, you are not doing them any favors, and yes we have had our share of trials, and no my children are not perfect.
September 23, 2009 at 9:13 am
Unfortunately swatting a child of his age probably would do more harm than good because the real damage to him has been done.
Structure, limits and discipline was the mantra of a child psychologist I used to work with. Sometimes I think new parents need this tatooed on them. Discipline doesn’t need to be physical as you have so richly demonstrated with your own children but it does need to be something that makes an impact. I like the no cookie bit *g*
September 23, 2009 at 9:30 am
I knew this would generate some conversation. I should add that I could have no more spanked my kids than grown another head. Fortunately, the discpline had already been instilled. I could have never struck my adopted children as some had been abused and, of course, one can never spank a child in foster care. I think what wpilled over for me was the resul of not setting limits early.
September 23, 2009 at 9:49 am
I think that the issue comes when people see spanking as the only alternative to doing nothing.
“His mom threatened, cajoled, bribed and reasoned with him. He laughed ate her.” The issue here is that apparently, the mom never followed through on her threats. She bluffed, he called, and she was thereafter powerless. Kids need to know who is in charge.
“His mom looked embarrassed and said that it was so hard to keep him quiet as he was gifted and easily bored!!!” This is such a cop out. Yes, smart kids do get easily bored. That is no excuse for bad behavior.
September 23, 2009 at 10:17 am
Alfie Kohn wrote a pithy book about the danger to our children from parental and educational external bribes, called Punished by Rewards. It’s an eye-opening read. Emphasizing character and consequences rather than cookies seems a better plan. On your comment about “selling” to our kids: Imagine a nation of Coke, text and DSL-addicted teenagers in a world without instant access and gratification — talk about a post-apocalyptic zombie population! Many of my son’s friends don’t know how to be alone without panicking, much less how to be civil with peers or people in other age groups. Affluenza has claimed them.
September 23, 2009 at 10:20 am
We were blessed with bright, inquisitive children who each pushed the boundaries in their own ways. Early on, Dave and I came to realize that the forms of discipline that our parents used on us weren’t working nor were the “modern” methods of allowing kids to just do their thing and trying to reason with them when they behaved badly. Fortunately, at that time, there was a parenting course being offered on base called Active Parenting. What a difference that made. It gave us the tools we needed to do just what the title of the course said… to actively parent. To set boundaries, to set consequence for bad behaviour and most important… to follow through. I think that was perhaps the hardest part to do at first… to consistently follow through with enforcing consequences for undesirable behaviour.
So many parents don’t really want to parent their children. They want to be their children’s friend. They want to always be the “good guy.”
It often hurt my heart to hear them crying or to see their sad little faces when they were being disciplined. Actively parenting wasn’t easy parenting. It required more time and it required that we not just discipline our children but that we, as adults, be disciplined in our approach to parenting.
But by following through with the stated consequences, (which were different based on the severity of the infraction), our children have grown into adults that I can honestly say are people I want to spend time with and that I’d be proud to call friend.
September 23, 2009 at 10:57 am
Excellent post! I’ve been lurking here for awhile and just needed to chime in. I couldn’t agree more with your comments concerning the generation we see being raised today. Tho I am a SAHM, my husband is a teacher and we both see plenty of evidence of everything you have discussed.
One of our biggest ‘issues’ (right after the lack of discipline) is all the ‘stuff’ parents give their children. When our son turned 18 (2 years ago) we bought him a cell phone (his first). He literally stared at it like it was a dream. He couldn’t believe we had actually bought a phone for him, which sounds kind of sad but was actually very touching. He thanked us genuinely and sincerely and he teated that phone like it was gold. When I recounted this story to a friend, she remarked that we don’t even let kids ‘want’ things anymore. As soon as something new comes along we rush out to buy it so they’ll have the latest and greatest….whatever.
Waiting teaches patience and appreciation, we take that away when we fulfill a ‘want’ before it’s even a want.
ps. and just so you know, we’re not ogres; several of our kids have game systems and laptops, but they bought them out of their earnings and birthday money.
September 23, 2009 at 11:33 am
Catering to children, who do not (yet) have the tools to see the whole picture has created a generation of “I’m the only one that’s important”.
We, too, have 4 wonderful, grown children. Each tested the boundaries in their own way, as well. As adults (29, 27, & twins 23 yrs), each has also thanked me for how they were raised, as they have witnessed behavior, work ethic, etc. of their peers.
Together, we have had many laughs (now) remembering instances when they stepped out of line & the consequences that followed, but lessons were learned.
Our youngest son has a friend who is a picky eater. Growing up, he would eat only pizza or steak. Not kidding…Not exaggerating! His mom would make whichever of these he was in the mood for – separate from what was on the menu for the rest of the family. Steak sandwiches went to school with him, for lunch, unless pizza was on that day’s menu. When he was at our house & invited to stay for dinner, his answer was, always, either: “I’m not hungry”, or “I’ll get something later”. 1st) I pity his future spouse. 2nd) What will this teach his children? Perpetuated behavior.
September 23, 2009 at 3:16 pm
My son with ADHD is also potentially bipolar and imho Oppositional-Defiant. Sounds a bit like this child’s behavior, though the mom should follow thru on consequences. Mine would argue the sky has never in any lifetime been blue. I don’t know what the solution is, but to take it day by day. I fear for him in a Long Emergency type future, and definately in a fast crash situation. It’s a tough situation to be in. I just hope to raise a child that people will like to know, including myself 🙂
September 24, 2009 at 11:48 am
Because there are many different reasons children disobey, argue, act defiantly, etc., there should be various forms of discipline. One tool or method won’t cut it. Parenting just isn’t that neatly compartmentalized. Context should always be considered (are they overly tired, was there someone else ‘stirring the pot’, etc.). With that in mind, spanking on the bottom ONLY, is an appropriate response for certain rebellious behaviors, but NEVER in anger. If it is necessary, I usually send my child to their room for a few minutes first. This gives us both time to reflect on the situation. Afterwards, we hug, talk, pray. Let me state again, this in not the only form of discipline we use, but we do use is. If it is administered early in a child’s life, it will not need to be used often and the older they get, the less spanking is needed. For older kids, they get the delayed consequences much better. Young kids don’t. They need immediate cause-action reinforcement.
I have to agree with Anna Maria (above). It’s probably a bit late for that child. The parents should have established their position as a LOVING authority in that child’s life long before school began for him. Their work will be that much harder now that they’ve waited so long. I’m posting this a day late and read your post on Thursday as well. Don’t feel guilty, Kathy. He needed the swat – just it should have been done ages ago! This isn’t an action that is “un-peaceful”. His life, his mother’s, and everyone else’s would have had a lot more peace if she had.
September 24, 2009 at 1:47 pm
I’m not a parent, so I have little room to chime in here. But I just wanted to add a phrase I heard from one responsible parent who evidently thinks along your lines, Kathy. She said something like, “Kids love boundaries and limitations. That’s why they visit them so frequently.” I’m guessing she provided those boundaries to her kids, and that the kids soon figured out exactly where they were.
September 25, 2009 at 2:55 pm
Like madison, my son has “difficulties”. He is Asperger’s (autism spectrum), Oppositional Defiant disorder, and has a bad relationship with his dad that causes a lot of acting out and stress(his dad is abusive, but I am have a heck of a time getting any one to listen or believe me-a symptom of its better to leave the kid with his parent than to take him out and be wrong that occurs quite often in the area). I take each and every day as it comes, have taken him out of stores in the middle of shopping, and taken all privledges away at various times. There are days we did not leave our house because of bad behavior. Many days he is an absolute delight to be around with his unique perspective on life.
September 25, 2009 at 6:11 pm
Yeah, um, amongst the generation of parents who currently have kids < 10 years old or so, I see two disturbing trends:
1) A genuine reluctance to discipline kids. Part of this comes from some studies that basically counted interactions between kids and parents, classified those interactions as "positive" (good work, billy!) or "negative", (Billy no! Don't play with daddy's gun!), and found that kids who had more "positive" interactions did better in school, cognitively.
So therefore, parents were told "don't be negative", never mind the fact that there's lots of other things that go into that count of "positive vs negative interactions". (for openers, as income goes up, so does the number of positive interactions…)
2) The way people obsess over their kids is a new trend, historically. Think about how many parents plan their vacation, for example, around what their kids want.
Then try and imagine my father or grandfather doing that. (I'm 34 years old, for a timeframe.)
Parents used to have independent lives, interest, hobbies, etc, above and beyond simply "being a parent".
Parents I know today, the only thing they do is "being a parent".
September 30, 2009 at 7:57 pm
My children were only ever given perhaps a couple of smacks whilst growing up, but they were constantly fed the idea of respect not just for themselves but for others and boundaries, they thankfully have grown into healthy, well adjusted nice young adults. I wasn’t the perfect parent I am sure but those few constants ensured they turned out ok.